Benet ([info]benet) wrote,
@ 2008-09-28 22:42:00
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Counterfactual conversations
Yesterday, at the last rest-stop on the Bike the Barns ride, somebody asked, of the garment I was wearing, "Is that a kilt?"

Now that I take up my pen, it occurs to me to kick myself that I didn't just say "No, it's a skirt," in high dudgeon. Too late one thinks of what one should have said. Instead, I said, "Yes."

"Soooo.. does that mean you're Scottish?"

Oh man. There are a couple of tiers of wrong in this statement. The assumption that some article of clothing is an infallible signifier of cultural background is one, but I'm generally content to let that sit. Then I had my mouth open to deliver the whole rant about the Sobieski-Stuarts, and romanticizing a culture after annihilating it, ending up with John Prebble: "The Lowlander has inherited the hills, and the tartan is a shroud!" Possibly I would even need to explain the Highland Clearances, sometimes a necessity when living in some strange part of the world that was deprived of Highlanders for bizarre reasons of its own (climate too pleasant, agriculture too easy, not enough rocks, whatever).

Instead, my usual conflict-avoiding self, I just said "Not in the slightest," and pointed out that, being a plain black Utilikilt and not a tartan, there was no intended association with any Scots group. However mendacious such associations actually are, I didn't say.



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[info]auriaephiala
2008-09-29 03:59 am UTC (link)
You *did* wear bike shorts underneath it, right?

Otherwise, the very thought of the chafing makes me cringe...

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[info]benet
2008-09-29 04:03 am UTC (link)
Not actual bike shorts, but shorts, yes.

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[info]auriaephiala
2008-09-29 04:06 am UTC (link)
Actually responding to what you said:

My father emigrated from Scotland after graduating from university in the late 1940s, and didn't have a lot of time for "professional Scots" and obsessing about Burns Nights and haggis and all that silliness. The only reason he actually bought a couple kilts much later in life was because he liked Scottish country dancing as an activity.

My personal irritations are those people who idolize Mary QoS and Bonnie Prince Charlie -- both of whom I consider supremely incompetent and toxic for their followers.

Have you ever read _Legend in Green Velvet_ by Elizabeth Peters? Now that's a fun debunking of Scottish romance.

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[info]angevin2
2008-09-29 05:08 am UTC (link)
Heh, I was just at a boring social occasion with a pair of professional Scots. Advice for such people: do not attempt to school two early modernists on Queen Elizabeth and Mary Stuart.

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[info]auriaephiala
2008-09-29 04:53 pm UTC (link)
Excellent advice.

Were they basing their comments strictly on seeing _The Golden Age_?

What I find even more annoying is people (actually one person I'm dealing with right now) who selectively quote research to prove the conclusion they had decided on before the research. And who completely discount Actual Real World Experience and Incidents, accumulated over decades.

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[info]benet
2008-09-29 03:14 pm UTC (link)
No I haven't; I'll look it up.

(Also kinda laughing at the idea of "Mary Quality of Service", which was the first way that acronym unpacked in my head.)

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[info]auriaephiala
2008-09-29 04:54 pm UTC (link)
Giggle!

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[info]kgkofmel
2008-09-29 12:27 pm UTC (link)
Well, you took a teachable moment and taught the needed and accessible lesson, in a manner appropriate to a social occasion.

So I'm not so much thinking it's counterfactual. Nor conflict avoidant.

Overteaching/overinforming is just as deadly to expanding someone's knowledge base as underteaching/underinforming, particularly in a social situation.

So, well, go you.



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[info]benet
2008-09-29 02:43 pm UTC (link)
Well, thanks!

By counterfactual I really meant that I was musing about the conversation as it might have gone, rather than how it actually went. :) And, yeah, I don't think anybody would've been served by me ranting - I would have (rightly) felt like a schmuck afterwards, and the other person attacked rather than informed.

And, of course, by the categorical imperative: I do, in general, prefer that people look past my frequent infelicities in opening conversation to the friendly intent behind, so it behooves me to return the favour.

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